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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all! I have a 2013 Avenger SE, my father and I just changed the breaks out fully yesterday. New calipers, rotors, pads, the whole deal. Got everything finished up this morning after some parts issues and have bled the system twice. I still have no resistance on my pedal when I start the car up. Tried to do a test to see if it just needed to be used but I stopped that almost immediately as pushing the pedal all the way down gave little breaking power and it didn’t feel safe. I am getting some stopping power though.
 

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Your car has an ABS system, and bleeding requires a system that works with the ABS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Your car has an ABS system, and bleeding requires a system that works with the ABS.
The manual said that I shouldn’t have to worry about the ABS unless I changed something up on that end. The book said that as long as it was only calipers then I should only need to bleed at the wheel.

an update to where we are: still very little pedal but now my passenger rear and driver front lines are not getting any fluid in them. We got a lot of air out of it and now nothing at all.
 

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Yes you should bleed the ABS as namretsud mentioned:

STANDARD PROCEDURE - ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEM BLEEDING

The base brake's hydraulic system must be bled anytime air enters the hydraulic system. The ABS must always be bled anytime it is suspected that the HCU has ingested air.

Brake systems with ABS must be bled as two independent braking systems. The non-ABS portion of the brake system with ABS is to be bled the same as any non-ABS system.

The ABS portion of the brake system must be bled separately. Use the following procedure to properly bleed the brake hydraulic system including the ABS.


NOTE
During the brake bleeding procedure, be sure the brake fluid level remains close to the FULL level in the master cylinder fluid reservoir. Check the fluid level periodically during the bleeding procedure and add Mopar® DOT 3 brake fluid as required.

BLEEDING
When bleeding the ABS system, the following bleeding sequence must be followed to insure complete and adequate bleeding.
  1. Make sure all hydraulic fluid lines are installed and properly torqued.
  2. Connect the scan tool to the diagnostics connector. The diagnostic connector is located under the lower steering column cover to the left of the steering column.
  3. Using the scan tool, check to make sure the ABM does not have any fault codes stored. If it does, clear them.

    BLEED HOSE SET UP

    BLEED HOSE SET UP
    WARNING
    When bleeding the brake system wear safety glasses. A clear bleed tube (1) must be attached to the bleeder screws and submerged in a clear container filled part way with clean brake fluid (2). Direct the flow of brake fluid away from yourself and the painted surfaces of the vehicle. Brake fluid at high pressure may come out of the bleeder screws when opened.

    NOTE
    Pressure bleeding is recommended to bleed the base brake system to ensure all air is removed from system. Manual bleeding may also be used, but additional time is needed to remove all air from system.


  4. Bleed the base brake system.
  5. Using the scan tool, select ECU VIEW, followed by ABS MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS to access bleeding. Follow the instructions displayed. When finished, disconnect the scan tool and proceed.
  6. Bleed the base brake system a second time. Check brake fluid level in the reservoir periodically to prevent emptying, causing air to enter the hydraulic system.
  7. Fill the master cylinder fluid reservoir to the FULL level.
  8. Test drive the vehicle to be sure the brakes are operating correctly and that the brake pedal does not feel spongy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well guess I am shit out of luck then. I’ll end up having to take it to a shop. These manuals should be written more clearly. It makes it sound like you won’t have to mess with the ABS if it is only your calipers being changed.
 

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Did you replace the crush washers? They are not really reusable

the scan tool, bleeding the abs system just cycles the pump a ton of times. Technically, braking a lot and pumping your brakes will ahve the same effect. I had just a little air in mine once from replacing a back caliper, took a couple of weeks of easy driving and having to pump the brakes, but it bled it
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Did you replace the crush washers? They are not really reusable

the scan tool, bleeding the abs system just cycles the pump a ton of times. Technically, braking a lot and pumping your brakes will ahve the same effect. I had just a little air in mine once from replacing a back caliper, took a couple of weeks of easy driving and having to pump the brakes, but it bled it
I used all new hardware, well almost all new. I reused the mount bolts to attack the bracket and caliper to the wheel hub.

my fear with ABS is this: due to an issue with a snap ring in my passenger front CV Axle I do not current “have” ABS. As in the light is on and I cannot get the mechanism to engage. That is my first fear 1.) the scan tool may not even cycle the ABS due to that, and 2.) pumping the peddle may not be enough either.

we got pretty close yesterday, but we couldn’t clear the last hurdle: passenger rear and driver front would throw out air while being bled, then once the air bubbles stopped the fluid wouldn’t come through the lines. There would be a trickle but not nearly enough to get the pressure to be useful. This all happens in about 4-5 bleed cycles. It is looking like we will have to just take it to a shop.
 

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do you manually bleed or use a vacuum system? I purchased a dirt cheap one man brake bleeder. With that I did see interment flow of brake fluid come through but ultimately it was able to suck fluid through. I did end up using probably a gallon of brake fluid to bleed the whole system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
do you manually bleed or use a vacuum system? I purchased a dirt cheap one man brake bleeder. With that I did see interment flow of brake fluid come through but ultimately it was able to suck fluid through. I did end up using probably a gallon of brake fluid to bleed the whole system.
I have been doing it the two person manual way.
 

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you may want to look into the pneumatic ones. Mine plugs into the air compressor and creates suction that way. Massive bottle feeds the brake fluid reservoir. I think I got it from Walmart for about $20.

also, for bleeding abs in our cars, apparently this would work as mentioned in another thread

FOXWELL ABS Scanner NT630 Plus ABS Bleed Scan Tool Check Engine Code Reader OBD2 Scanner Airbag SAS SRS Diagnostic Tool 【2021 Upgraded Version English/Spanish】
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
you may want to look into the pneumatic ones. Mine plugs into the air compressor and creates suction that way. Massive bottle feeds the brake fluid reservoir. I think I got it from Walmart for about $20.

also, for bleeding abs in our cars, apparently this would work as mentioned in another thread

FOXWELL ABS Scanner NT630 Plus ABS Bleed Scan Tool Check Engine Code Reader OBD2 Scanner Airbag SAS SRS Diagnostic Tool 【2021 Upgraded Version English/Spanish】
I will look into this, thanks! As it stands I found out you can do a manual bleed on the abs module so we did that and got all the air out of the system, and good pressure from each bleed valve at the wheels. Breaks are still dead. We are leaning towards a master cylinder now.
 

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Yes, the master could be leaking internally preventing good pedal pressure.
 
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