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So I've been wondering... what are the differences between the flex fuel avengers (specifically 2009) and the standard gas ones? Also, would it be possible to convert my '09 to flex fuel with maybe a couple parts and some ecu programming? Has anyone here even considered this undertaking?

I'd like to start a discussion on what it might take to accomplish this. My car is paid off so I'm not concerned with warranties. I will also volunteer to be the guinea pig for this if we get anywhere.
 

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Not worth the cost versus benefit! Whole fuel system is DIFFERENT due to material difference to be able to pump that stuff. and think about this, if you do have it and do not drive a lot that stuff forms water in the tank FASTER than the stuff we get now with 10% ! And we all know that water in the gas is not a GOOD thing!!
 

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Probably would need to change out the pump and injectors if anything when it comes to the mechanical stuff, the real issue would be the programming in the computer to make sure the engine gets enough fuel to run on E85 without hurting it. Usually if you end up with water in the tank, the ethanol would bind to it and run it through the engine, clearing water out of the fuel system, where with just gasoline, it just sits in the bottom of the tank, and enough gets in there, the pump won't pick up any as, only water and it usually takes extreme measures to get the water and alcohol to phase separate and cause that kind of problem, while oil (which gasoline is made from), just floats on top of the water. Ethanol should help degunk the fuel system as well, I'm planning on running E15 in my 4.0l I-6 Jeep to help clear out any gunk from the truck just sitting around the last year without being run. Speaking of which, it sat parked from August of '15 through late June of '16 without being driven and the fuel being what was left after it's last fill up in February of '15. Once we made sure it had some water, we started it, which took a few trys since the fuel system likes to bleed down, no matter what it's drinking, it ran fine on nearly 1.5 year old pump gas with 10% ethanol.....only real problem is that there was so little left that it might not have made it to the gas station..........but the brake line ruptured (heavy rust on the lines, they looked like tree branches!) before the thing to get into reverse and created a whole new repair to be done before it left the property.
 

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Different pump lines and injectors and any connecting o ring seals are different and not changed will erode from E 85 fuel that is why there was a BIG concern about the addition of 10% in gas as they started out wanting more than 10%. Yes computer maps would be different also. Look up fuel system parts for both and you will see that there is a difference.
 

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It really isn't that complicated. Our cars can be tuned on HP tuners which can support different sized injectors as well as fuel maps.PLus since all gas now contains ethanol the fuel systems have to be built to resist the corrosion of ethanol. That being said if I were to do it, which I plan to do at a future date I would run aftermarket caliber srt4 injectors that are made for pump or e85 and have it tuned at a shop that supports HP tuners. The fuel pump can handle it for awhile but that being said you're forcing it to pump more fuel than it usually does so an upgrade might be needed in the future.
 

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Well you can make anything run on almost anything for short term(emergency) use! But to do it right to make it last is a different story. I was an active auto tech when the whole ethanol fuel thing started and I still see many flex fuel cars with mechanical fuel component trouble to this day, and am referring to more than dodges about this. Notice I did not post about any difficulty in remapping the computer, just that it had to be done. also am surprised that nobody thought off the need for different spark plugs(and Gap) to complete the process.
And I can not speak for other climate areas but up here when we store the 10% stuff up here, it gets NASTY much faster than straight GAS.(I refer to the gas can for our mowers and power equipment).
 

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Unfortunately Rebel is right. The downside to ethanol is that as of right now it is unregulated and you often times have to be cautious of the levels of actual ethanol in e85 as it changes from summer to winter. Also as I am doing his in the future as well I am having a speed shop help me with mine that can actually consult with me and point me in the right direction and help me with the tuning and maintenance afterwards and I also recommend that you DO NOT do this on your own and consult with a reliable shop in your area. With that kind of help they can do the tune and help pick injectors and spark plugs as well as a pump if needed.
 

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It is not unfortunate per say. I just do not like people to think that these kind of drastic engineering changes are some 30 minute show effort and it's done type mod. It can be done but do the homework BEFORE diving in!
 

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So Snowbrdrfreak, Have not seen you back to check in on this thread you started. All I can say is that you got one GOOD one going here! Have you done any "homework" on your own that you may want to share?
 

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I am by no means trying to spark a fight or argument but I have done a lot of homework on this subject and will soon be doing this project myself. It is by no means a install and done project as you have a lot of trial and error in order to find the right mixture but this is doable. I have seen a lot of this on the caliber forums as they were having the same problems as us. The search for more power without much means of aftermarket support. Not much have done it but a few have and have had wonderful results. I think one is making around 400 bhp at around 20 psi. It was believed to be impossible as the timing and fuel trim had to be adjusted and most tuning software only did fuel trim. But once hp tuners was supported,like us, a few began experimenting and are making good amounts of power without knock. E85 has always been a tricky subject but like i said can be accomplished. As far as I know the fuel pump should hold up for awhile but an upgrade is likely such as a walbro fuel pump. The lines should be fine as should the fuel rail. I am unsure of the regulator but I do know the fuel filter will need to be replaced and new e85 injectors must be used. I would look at Injector Dynamics for the caliber srt4 as we share the same fuel system setup. Of course this leaves the timing and fuel trim. I do not tune vehicles but from what I know the timing will have to be advanced and the fuel trim will have to be increased as ethanol produces less energy on the lambda scale as pump gas.The positive is that ethanol keeps the engine cooler,reduces knock, and adds power. A down side to this project is the fact you can't run both gas and ethanol like a true flex fuel setup but will have to run one or the other. Expect some things to show up in the fuel system as the ethanol cleans the fuel system and the engine removing carbon deposits and any leftover gunk in the fuel system. This has concluded most of my knowledge and like I said I will be doing this in the future. I wish you luck and hoped this information helps.
 

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Hey there komrade, I Think some may think that is happening because we may be looking at small parts of our posts and sticking to our own thoughts of that specific part. I am not arguing or tying to say don't even think about it at all of doing a conversion. If you reread my posts of this DISCUSSION, I agree that it can be done but as an auto tech. I Have seen the problems caused by poorly thought out and executed "mods." many times. I have also come to the conclusion that many people get hooked by the 30 minute tv shows about cars and think those things are real time doings, they are NOT. And they have a STAFF of people prepping the things shown. Basicly I am saying do the homework first before diving in, which is a mirror of what you are saying. So I do not see that there is any "argument" doing on. But yes there are many small details of a conversion that have not even been touched yet, I have more thoughts but will hold off for now as I am not trying to hog this thread. Yes I gave my opinion as to not being worth the cost verses the benefit at the start, but that was my opinion to the discussion. Not do not do it. On a final note, before diving in on a fuel conversion, wherever you are check your state DMV rules for any need for certification when done for registration/ inspection purposes. In NY fuel type is recorded on vehicle title and must be amended when changes are made and if I may suppose also has to have a state certified inspection done of any fuel conversions (like change to lp,lng). Keep on doing the "homework" and keep doing this safely First.
 
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