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Intake Manifold Runner Control question

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89K views 67 replies 24 participants last post by  Noe  
#1 ·
Hello all, I'm new to forum and have a question. I have a 2008 dodge avenger 2.4L and am getting the code p2004. It seems that this means the IMRC is stuck open. Does that mean I have to replace the IMRC or is this something I can just regrease; or, could this be a wiring problem and if so, how would I go about checking that aspect?
Thanks ahead of time.
 
#28 ·
took it to the shop. and they said that sometimes it could just be an old battery, or a low voltage of some sort..
They hooked mine up to the scanner they have and didnt seem worried and so they cleared it and it has been running ok since then
 
#29 ·
just to let everyone know more about this (documentation purposes)... I have had nothing but problems with these codes since my car was in an accident about 6 months ago.
Finally had the shop that did my transmission figure it out... my pcm is bad!!!
Now i am not saying that when it throws a p2004 or 2017 that it is your pcm but thats what happened to mine.

Hopefully no one else has this issue.
 
#31 ·
hi guys im new to the forum also.
im having the same problem as mowery33 execpt my code is p2017.
how can i diagnose? and where can i find the part?
I dont really know where you can find the part. From the looks of it use the diagrams that were posted earlier.
I had mine redone at a shop...they tested it and repaired it. It was a really good shop and so I didnt get charged much.
 
#32 ·
Hello my 2008 2.4L can only drive about 15mph with pedel to the floor. It's not the CAT. He problem is somewhere in the intake. I cleaned the throttle body still no change. Am thinking its the MAP sensor could anyone tell me where its located
 
#33 ·
Hi, I just wanted to put in my $.10. I got had a P2004 and P2017 a few months ago, I went on ebay and bought an OBD 2 bluetooth scanner for $15.00 and an app for my Android called "Torque" for $4.99 amd ran it on my car and gave me those codes.
I had a tornado type device on my intake for "better flow" and I took it off reset the codes and P2017 cleared but not the P2004. I searched everywhere for IMRC and not to many images and it wasn't even listed as that in a PDF of manual I found online.
The name of this was, well here are some of the names:

1.Flow control valve actuator
2.Short runner valve
3.intake manifold runner

I googled this and searched it on ebay, so now I knew exactly what I was looking for.
BTW P2004 code is "Intake Manifold Runner Control" stuck open.
So I'm a hands on type of guy, so I made sure my engine was cold first and the control valve actuator is located on the left of the air filter, it is bolted to the engine by (3) bolts. 2 size 10mm and 1 size 8mm, you have to disconnect a few harnesses to work better. After is was off, I opened it by removing 4 hex screws and it was clear that a butterfly type rod was stuck, I exercised it back and forth till it moved freely and put it back together and put it back on the car. You have to pay attention as you take it off and you will notice that there is a connecting rod on the engine side, I made sure it aligns when I put it back in. The control valve is spring loaded on the inside so when it went in I had to put a little tension on it.
Finally when it was all done I still had the check engine light on, so I press reset code on the App while I had my car off but with the key up to On position. It finally reset and the light has been off for over a month. I think its all good now.
 
#34 · (Edited by Moderator)
Here is the link to the Android App:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en


Here is the link to the part on ebay, although I didn't buy it shows what it looks like:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=121093163217&index=10&nav=SEARCH&nid=88564415246


Here is the link to the OBD2 Bluetooth scanner, I would recommend buying from within the US.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=290917495145&index=19&nav=SEARCH&nid=74499559980


Here is a picture of the engine and the valve is located right of where the "VTT" letters end on the side of the engine.:

http://pictures.dealer.com/f/fairoakschryslerjeepcllc/1881/7b939aca3f61b06ef4870d4940f0c72cx.jpg


I hope this helps someone, money is tight nowadays and it feels good when we can fix something and save cash.
 
#35 ·
Imrc

Just so everyone knows I just replaced my ETC and voila the IMRC code disappeared as well...

Alot cheaper than replacing the intake as many ODB code readers called it that. The ETC finally jammed shut car barely ran so unless you bring it into a Dodge dealer the side garages with cheaper ODB readers wont detect it properly...

Just sayin
 
#40 ·
My 2009 2.4 had this problem in November. I watched oldskool funk take off the IM and Actuator. I did not take of the IM but used WD 40 and carb cleaner to free up the actuator. Four months later that CEL came on, and my OBD2 told me the bad news. So, I forked out $116 for a new actuator; This did NOT solve the problem. I am going to take of the IM and spray it down as I know that is the problem.

Good news, in my research, I have people reporting prices from $134 to $250 on eBay etc. The dealer wants a grand.

QUESTION: Where is all this carbon build up coming from? Is there any way to prevent it?
 
#41 ·
First post, adding info to this thread to help others...
I just successfully did this repair today to address a p2017 code on a 2008 Dodge Avenger SE.

I faced the same problems as you guys:
1. Is it the actuator or the whole intake manifold? It's a lot cheaper and easier to get the actuator module.
2. Do I have to get my cars computer reprogrammed after?

First, the good news - The repair is relatively easy. And you DON'T have to go to the dealer for reprogramming.
The bad news - You probably will have to replace the whole thing. I'll explain why.

My problem was two-fold, both the intake manifold runner and the actuator module were defective.
I had to replace the entire assembly. Total cost - $250 for the assembly from eBay and a couple of hours work.

Test your actuator first, remove it and try to turn it with needle nose pliers. It may be just fine or you could free it up with wd-40.
BUT - If you detect any clicking or "sticking" as it turns, it is defective. No amount of wd-40 will help that, it's worn out inside.
Mine had a "flat" spot as it turned, it was trying to stop about halfway back through its return movement.
In comparison, The new replacement module turned freely and snapped smoothly back to its spring loaded position without any hesitation.

Next, try turning the end piece of the runner control rod that the module attaches to. It should only rotate a very small amount.
More importantly though, try to pull it in/out. Gently - you're only trying to see if the runner inside will move side-to-side in its housing a little bit.
If you pull too hard that little piece will come out, it's only stuck in there with a small o-ring.
That piece should be in there firmly, and you shouldn't be able to move it in/out. If you can feel movement, then your runner is probably moving inside.
The first two pictures show this little piece and the runner it attaches to inside.

Which brings us to the reason these intake manifolds require replacement, rather than repair or cleaning.
The problem lies in the design, as I found when I compared the new manifold to the old one I had removed.

The runners on both manifolds seemed to rotate freely with the flaps moving about 30-40 degrees.
However, the defective one exhibited a little bit of side-to-side movement.
The new one did not show ANY side-to-side movement at all.

I removed the small piece the connects to the actuator by simply pulling it straight out of the intake manifold.
On the inside, there are four flaps, each connected to a rod that runs the width of the manifold. As the rod turns, so do the flaps.
The rod/flaps are sandwiched between the outer plastic housing of the manifold and an inner plastic retaining housing that holds everything in place.
The inner plastic housing is held in place with two torx screws and pops right out, as you can see in the third pic.
There are five bearing surfaces on which the rod turns, they fit between the two plastic halves of the manifold housing.

The real problem is seen in the forth pic:
Each end of the rod has a small sealed METAL bearing, these were just fine, despite the carbon build-up..
But the pieces that fit in-between each of the flaps are just rubber rings on plastic clips, through which the rod turns!
Mine had not only worn out, but one had jumped entirely out of position, causing the rod to bind against the inner housing so it couldn't move freely.

If Chrysler had invested in 3 more metal bearings rather than these cheap rubber rings, these things wouldn't be failing, They could simply be cleaned.

There you have it. It costs $250 and up to replace this whole thing...for the sake of a lousy 10 cent rubber bearing!!!
After the install I cleared the codes with a cheap OBDII scanner and let the car run for a couple of minutes.
No more codes, no more problems. No reprogramming needed and the idle seemed to adjust itself just fine.
Tested it out and I'm still getting 34MPG, same as before.

Hope this helps someone. Good luck!
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#42 ·
Oh, one more thing. In the third pic I had already removed the intake runner, I just stuck it back in to show you guys how it looks. But when I first opened it, the second and third rubber rings from the left were in their correct positions. It was the first one on the left that had jumped out of place entirely. You can see the shiny spot just above the second bolt hole were it had been rubbing/binding for some time. Each rubber ring also showed signs of wear from rubbing against their respective retaining valleys. If we had a good source of correct size/material rings (or preferably, metal bearings) we could just repair these manifolds. I'm not certain, but it looks as if each flap is attached with small allen-type set screws. Perhaps they could be removed to allow the installation of new rings or bearings. Just a thought. Rebuilt manifolds anyone?;)
 
#43 ·
I am having the same issue and I am stumped. I have a 2008 Dodge Avenger SE 2.4 and I am getting the p2004 code and the p0420, but these codes only show up around the second time I start it up and drive it after I reset the codes. I changed the actuator several times, replaced the plug for the actuator, replaced the computer, cleaned the intake manifold (because I was told that my intake manifold fell into the group that didn't need to be replaced), and went through the guide presented here with complications.

I got stuck on step 13. (K602) MFV Signal Circuit Shorted to the (F856) 5 volt supply circuit. When I tested the resistance between 6 and 5 I got nothing at all. So I went back to the top and tried the steps that I missed do to following the guide and I got to step 9. (K602) MFV Signal Circuit Shorted to ground and it showed no resistance to ground.

I would like to get this fixed but I am unsure how to proceed. Do I change the whole intake, just the runners, the actuator, the wiring, or what ever it might possibly be. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
#44 ·
Is all you have done strictly ELECTRICAL diagnosis? read the post above yours, there are MECHANICAL causes for the same problem.And much more common than wiring or electrical sensors. and all the gunk is from oil vapors from the PCV system accumulating inside the intake manifold.
 
#45 ·
Well I cleaned the intake manifold because according to the dodge bulletin my manifold fell into the group that didn't need to be changed. I replaced the pcv valve and actuator. It could be the runners and I was just curious to see what everyone else might think it would be.
 
#46 ·
I agree with rebel. You can see how dirty my intake was in the above photos. Mechanical failure is far more common than computer failure.

If your actuator is bad, you'd likely hear a high-pitched whining noise from it when the key is on, meaning it's powered but can't rotate because it's defective or the runner it's attached to is frozen. You can remove the actuator and use a screwdriver to try to turn the runner manually. It has a limited range of motion, about a quarter turn. You shouldn't feel any resistance. (That isn't conclusive though, mine felt as though it was turning fine, even though it was defective). It might help you determine if yours is actually stuck in one position though.

I can tell you that just running some additive-type cleaner through your system likely wouldn't solve the problem, if that's what you tried. Once carbon is built up anywhere, it's difficult to remove. If you haven't already (and have the time), I'd say remove the manifold and inspect the runner directly. It isn't too difficult, just be sure to avoid damaging the o-ring on the bottom. It wouldn't hurt anything and at the very least, you'll be able to confirm if your problem is indeed mechanical or electrical.

Bulletins tend to target high-volume complaints for specific models/years. It doesn't rule out the possibility that your particular runner may be binding inside due to a defect, carbon build-up, or small part failure. If it is binding, you may find that you can free the runner movement with some Seafoam cleaner and a thorough wire brush cleaning. If I had more time when I did mine, I would have disassembled the runner rod, cleaned everything, and replaced the defective rubber rings, rather than replacing the entire assembly.

As for the codes returning every second trip - That has to due with how the computer detects problems and stores codes. It often won't set a code unless it detects that the condition(s) has been present for more than one trip, a certain number of miles, at full operating engine temperature, etc.. For example, the "gas cap" (evap leak) signal won't go away until after (1) the problem has been fixed and (2) the car has made at least two trips totaling 120 minutes, or something similar.
 
#48 ·
OK so I checked it out and the runner rod will not turn.

Magemorph, you mentioned that your able to change the rings. I was wondering how you get them to stay in place after changing them, so it doesn't happen again. Also, where could you buy these rings because I searched online and couldn't find any. Thanks.
 
#49 ·
You won't know if they need new ring seals til you open it up. As in the pics CLEANING off the carbon build up MAY be all that is needed. Did you take the manifold off the motor to check for the the rods rotation ability? Eithr way the two codes you post of can be tracked to what we are discussing here.