So I did some reading and the 2.5l can be swapped with the 3.0L 6G72 possibly but my question is there’s a turbocharged version of that engine that makes way more hp and torque my question is does that one work or do I have to go with non turbo version ?
Disciple923
Welcome to the small and loyal COUPE series Avenger page of the Forumz.
There has only been one member here that successfully made this swap and even did get a turbo hooked to it for a short time(it did not pass long term use). Unfortunately he has not been active here for a LONG time. All remaining COUPE owners here are working with the 2.5 or the 2.0 engines. There is not much out there in performance aftermarket support for these or the Sedan models that replaced the COUPES. Sorry for a not so positive response.
There has only been one member here that successfully made this swap and even did get a turbo hooked to it for a short time(it did not pass long term use). Unfortunately he has not been active here for a LONG time. All remaining COUPE owners here are working with the 2.5 or the 2.0 engines. There is not much out there in performance aftermarket support for these or the Sedan models that replaced the COUPES. Sorry for a not so positive response.
The 2.5 AND the generation of 3.0 that works are both OLD and TIRED motors by now. Timing belt on both is critical for replacement by now for either, and unless you have auto experience rather complicated and "in car" a bit of a pain to do. Either way for an engine I would suggest a full rebuild out of the car, and the 3.0has some modifications that need to be made to certain parts(also some of the 2.5 parts have to be put on it) to make the swap anyway. It is no cheap, quick, drop in and go task.
YES I investigated doing the same for mine and decided to LEAVE IT STOCK, just well maintained!
Good Luck to you in what you decide to do, the body design just screams for power to match it's looks of our Coupes!
YES I investigated doing the same for mine and decided to LEAVE IT STOCK, just well maintained!
Good Luck to you in what you decide to do, the body design just screams for power to match it's looks of our Coupes!
A follow up to my post #4 here:
The reason for my posting of a full rebuild is that especially IF you want to "bolt on" HP increasing items((turbo, NO2, etc.), one does NOT want to do this to an OLD or "high mileage" motor.It will NOT last long before things go wrong(oil consumption, leaks, head gaskets, bearings, rings, etc.) The NEWEST of the COUPE model is 20 years old already, and the specific gen of the 3.0 motor needed is older than that!
Our COUPES are rarely found rides anymore, my opinion is if you want a DD car, keep it STOCK and well maintained. IF you have say $5k and lots of "down time" to work on such a swap, then the "field is open", just don't expect to find fingertip availability of "how to" info.
The reason for my posting of a full rebuild is that especially IF you want to "bolt on" HP increasing items((turbo, NO2, etc.), one does NOT want to do this to an OLD or "high mileage" motor.It will NOT last long before things go wrong(oil consumption, leaks, head gaskets, bearings, rings, etc.) The NEWEST of the COUPE model is 20 years old already, and the specific gen of the 3.0 motor needed is older than that!
Our COUPES are rarely found rides anymore, my opinion is if you want a DD car, keep it STOCK and well maintained. IF you have say $5k and lots of "down time" to work on such a swap, then the "field is open", just don't expect to find fingertip availability of "how to" info.
Hey Rebel,
I have a question and if anyone can point me in the right direction I think it would be you. Did the 6G7's use a different transmission than the Chrysler 3.3 and 3.8 that was in the Caravan? I remember reading somewhere that someone had attempted to swap in a Caravan 3.8 but I cannot find it now. I have two of these 98's, one for the street and one for the track. Street car has a 2.0 automatic that is probably stay that way. The track car, "now " has a blown up 2.5. Knew that was going to happen. Since I don't have to worry about the "creature comforts" I was thinking about possibly the 3.8 Chrysler. I have been offer a complete 2007 Ram pickup with a 5.7 Hemi. And I have a friend who builds race cars for a living. This thing may end up like it should have come from the factory.
I have a question and if anyone can point me in the right direction I think it would be you. Did the 6G7's use a different transmission than the Chrysler 3.3 and 3.8 that was in the Caravan? I remember reading somewhere that someone had attempted to swap in a Caravan 3.8 but I cannot find it now. I have two of these 98's, one for the street and one for the track. Street car has a 2.0 automatic that is probably stay that way. The track car, "now " has a blown up 2.5. Knew that was going to happen. Since I don't have to worry about the "creature comforts" I was thinking about possibly the 3.8 Chrysler. I have been offer a complete 2007 Ram pickup with a 5.7 Hemi. And I have a friend who builds race cars for a living. This thing may end up like it should have come from the factory.
The trans of the ES model is based on the A-604 trans. While the minivan 3.8 is a "computerized" update of that trans., early yr models of such were notoriously major trouble prone. As I've not been involved in such swapping, I can only speculate. But major areas of "headaches" would be the 3.8 intake system that sits rather tall, and not sure if the 2.5's manifolds would match head or block surfaces. Next would be the need to FABRICATE motor and trans brackets and rig mounts to fit. Also fuel deliver is single supply type and Avenger is designed with a return system(therefore different pump asy(and capabilities) Also the 3.8 is more of a torque monster and not a higher rev motor, and trans final drive gears(side cover mounted) were more for lower speeds
Yeah there have been a lot of dreamers wanting to do such, but none have come back with an I DID IT. My belief is that they wanted "drop in" powertrains with step by step instructions to do it. I only know of 1 documented 3.0 swap successfully being done and posted here.
Other than a crimp on your "racing" yours, you now have the forced downtime to play with it. This will make quite the interesting thread, and would be happy to participate further in it if you decide to pursue a swap...
On a side note, if you decide to go with a replacement same motor...I'd sell my ride as a donor..runs great(eng/trans) body getting attacked by rust gremlins up here. many good body/int pieces.........
Yeah there have been a lot of dreamers wanting to do such, but none have come back with an I DID IT. My belief is that they wanted "drop in" powertrains with step by step instructions to do it. I only know of 1 documented 3.0 swap successfully being done and posted here.
Other than a crimp on your "racing" yours, you now have the forced downtime to play with it. This will make quite the interesting thread, and would be happy to participate further in it if you decide to pursue a swap...
On a side note, if you decide to go with a replacement same motor...I'd sell my ride as a donor..runs great(eng/trans) body getting attacked by rust gremlins up here. many good body/int pieces.........
Thank you for the info. 2.5 may be the way to go just to get it going again. Sorry to hear about your ride. It looks like a beautiful car.
The 3.0 out of the 3g eclipse /Stratus are the only ones that work with the tranny I've been running the 3.0 swap since 2001 or so the extra horsepower is nice at minimum do a shift kit on the tranny/I had a rebuild with welding of the pin and higher stall convertor since I have direct port nitrous
So you’ve decided to swap out your tired old 2.5L 6G73 engine in your Avenger or Sebring coupe…. Great! We get countless requests for lists of what needs to be taken off or swapped over in order to complete the swap and a few years ago I wrote up a quick list explaining what needed to be done. I’ll go through it again and we’ll update a few things in the process. I won’t go through step by step on what you need to do, just run by everything that needs to be taken out, or modified and what to look out for. No detailed pictures unless I feel it is needed for a part that needs to be modified a certain way…….. so please do not ask.
Finding the engine I can’t really help with, but choosing one is just as hard. It will be very hard to resist grabbing that low buck engine you see 1-400 dollars below all the others and still only has 4 thousand miles on it. Usually something that good looking is generally a pig wearing pretty lipstick and something isn’t right with it. Look at what the market average is for that particular area or part, then sit and decide if you can go average or higher. Unless they can guarantee that engine is pristine……… leave the cheap one behind. Make sure the car it came from isn’t flood damaged, fire damaged, hit in the front or front sides, or a nasty rollover. Getting those generally leads to big problems having to weld up things on the block. Ask questions when you call them. If they seem annoyed to talk to you and answer your questions…….. kindly hang up and move on to another place.
Now; you’ve got your 3.0L engine sitting in front of you, and it looks like a lot of work to get that engine into your car. In reality it isn’t if you have everything planned out ahead of time. With over 25+ swaps under our belts here at Exile Racing, we’ve pretty much run into everything you at home or school can possibly run into when it comes to parts needed. Unless you bought some ungodly ugly, worn down, hard hit motor that needs a new front cylinder head or crankshaft that is. (We’ve been there as well)
If you copy this list, please at least be man enough to give credit where credit is due. We’ve helped pioneer this conversion along with others and frankly I’m sick of seeing lists I’ve created on other people’s sites without any credit.
TOOLS NEEDED BEFORE YOU GET STARTED
• Metric Socket Set – (1/2 in, 3/8in, 1/4in) If possible at least mid and deep sockets
• ½ breaker bar or a cheater pipe to break stubborn bolts free (AIR TOOLS IF YOU HAVE THEM)
• Open end/box end metric wrench set going from at least 10mm to 18mm
• Screw driver set
• Pry bar or large flathead screw driver
• Engine lift and chain
• Engine stand (or 2, makes it easier to swap parts from one engine to the other this way)
• Jack and jack stands
• Large moving blanket or cardboard sheet to place the hood on after you remove it.
• Gasket scraper (putty knife)
• Timing Tensioner tool (available for loan at ExileRacing.com or purchase at 3SXPerformance.com)
• Droplight/flashlights
• Grinder
• Hacksaw/sawsall (recommended)
MATERIALS NEEDED
• Blue Loctite
• Torque Converter Bolts (available at the dealer, or local trans shop)
• Black RTV
• Oil filter neck gasket (available at the dealer, or you can get gasket material and cut your own)
• Oil pickup tube gasket (dealer, or cut your own)
• Engine Degreaser
• Towels
• Oil drain pans (get as many as you can or dump often)
• Oil filter (use OEM Avenger 2.5L Unit)
• Oil (Use whichever you like, Mobil 1 etc)
• Couple of quarts of trans fluid for leakage (ATF+3 ONLY)
• Spark Plugs (We use NGK Copper, Bosch Copper also work great)
• PB Blaster or any rust penetrating oil
• MAP, Propane, or Oxy/Ac Torch just in case the exhaust is crusty
• Engine Coolant
• Exhaust Frontpipe Gaskets (2) dealer
3.0l 6G72 ENGINE PARTS THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED
• Pull the drain plug from the oil pan (you don’t want to have to pull off a full pan if they forgot to drain it before shipping)
• Upper Intake Manifold
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Front AC Bracket (black painted cast iron)
• Crankshaft pulley
• Timing cover
• You may need to take the front cam gear off to get at the back steel timing cover. This also makes installing the 2.5 cover easier as well. You have to redo the timing anyways, so take it off and save the curse words for something else. This generally means you’ll need an air wrench, so if you don’t get creative and leave the gear on. Unless you have a way of locking the gear from spinning without marring them up (OEM tool, it just isn’t worth it)
• Timing idler and bracket
• Crank position sensor (right by the lower timing gear, held in with 2 10mm bolts)
• Alternator bracket (if they sent it with it)
• Power Steering Bracket (again if they sent it)
• Exhaust manifolds
• Oil filter neck (3 bolts, 12mm – holds oil filter and temp sensor)
• Oil pan (this is a pain. You need the gasket scraper or putty knife and have to pry it off by wedging it in and goig along the pan on both sides until you feel it pulling apart)
• Oil pickup tube
• Coolant thermostat housing (crossover)
• Distributor
• Wrap up the cord for the knock sensor between the heads and tuck in away or remove the sensor completely.
2.5L 6G73 PARTS THAT NEED TO BE MODIFIED TO FIT THE 3.0L 6G72
• Timing covers – Here you’ll have to modify the lower cover at the lower section at the front of the block. Just trim off enough until it sits flush on the 3.0L engine, then set it aside until you get the timing done (Picture to come)
• Lower Alternator Bracket – Now In order to install this, you’ll notice the 6G72 oil pump has a mounting boss right where it needs to go on the back part of the motor. Two options here, hack it off the pump completely with a saw, or grind it until the alternator bracket fits. If you hack it, just cut the cylinder threaded portion off. No need to go any further in as the bracket clears with it gone. (Picture to come)
• Front bracket for the engine to trans (the one behind the starter) This you’ll see the upper 2 mounting holes for the engine, then a raised lip around the edge. You’ll need to take this edge off all the way around the top and about mid way to the bend. (Picture to come)
2.5L PARTS THAT NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED OVER TO THE 3.0L 6G72
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Upper Alternator Bracket
• Front cam gear to remove the steel timing cover
• Timing idler and spacer behind it
• Timing belt, and set the timing with new tensioner and tool. (TRIPLE CHECK TIMING)
• Timing covers from 2.5
• Oil Pickup tube from 2.5
• Oil Pan from 2.5
• Oil filter neck from 2.5, Install on 3.0 using either oem gasket or custom cut. DO NOT USE RTV. THIS IS AN AREA OF HIGH PRESSURE AND RTV WILL NOT HOLD
• Front and rear exhaust manifolds and gaskets from 2.5
• Oil Dipstick tube from 2.5
• Thermostat housing from 2.5
• Distributor from 2.5
• Plugs and wires
• Passenger side motor mount from 2.5
• AC Compressor bracket from 2.5
• Driveplate and spacer from 2.5
SANDMAN’S TIPS AND THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR
• Take your time and plan ahead. Plan for all scenarios. Including not finishing the car in a weekend and have a backup ride to work if need be. Make sure you have help, doing it solo is doable…….. but it will go a lot smoother if you have a helping hand or two.
• Put a drain pan under the passenger side axle on the trans and make sure it covers that side, the back differential cover and a good side area around it. When you remove the heater hose lines, pull them out and point them down at the pan if possible to minimize mess. Do all of this after you have finished all you can under the car so you aren’t laying in smelly coolant all night. We at ERT don’t even use a typical drain pan for oil, bt use the under the bed storage bins you can get a Sears. Wide area, and holds a full trans, oil, and coolant in one shot.
• The 3.0L may start off rough or die on first attempts, this is the ECU learning so no need to worry. It will smooth out soon, just let it warm up a bit.
• Leave the radiator cap off while you warm it for a bit, this will make sure you don’t vapor lock the engine and overheat. It will push coolant out of the toop, so just put a towel or 2 around it. DON’T COVER IT WITH A TOWEL OR BLOCK IT, THIS WILL PRESSURIZE THE SYSTEM AND WHEN YOU RELEASE IT WILL BLOW OUT. If bubbles are popping up fast as the engine runs, you are safe to pop the cap on.
• The new engine may tick a bit until you get some load on the engine and the lifters have time to pump up. Unless it is REALLY loud and the car is running rough, you should be fine. If the car sounds like it is causing damage… turn it off and check the oil level, timing etc.
• Keep everything clean, just makes everything easier. Clean any gaskets being reused (Thermostat housing, exhaust manifold) Dirt will cause leaks.
• You’re going to notice differences in the front and rear valve covers. They don’t have the same mounting bosses we do on the 2.5. It is OK to either swap the hard lines for the vacuum with silicone, or just lay them there out of the way under the manifold in the spots it would have mounted in.
• You may notice a bit higher oil pressure than on the 2.5…….. don’t worry. It’s normal.
• You can use stock injectors on the 2.5, you just won’t have any top end power that you would have unless you use 210cc injectors. In order to get back low end power after swapping the injectors out, you’ll need to tune the bottom end of the RPM scale with a controller such as the SAFC or Split Second PSC1.
• DO NOT USE THE 3.0 210CC injectors that come on the motor you order. You’ll be sorry when you try to upgrade them later and the injector choices will have you cutting and splicing the harness back to what you had before. You must use High Impedance injectors or a resistor pack for lows if you feel you must have them for some reason.
• YES, HEADERS FROM THE 2.5 WORK ON THE 3.0L
The 3.0 we use comes from these cars.
2000+ Eclipse
2001+ Sebring
2001+ Stratus
1999+ Galant
Finding the engine I can’t really help with, but choosing one is just as hard. It will be very hard to resist grabbing that low buck engine you see 1-400 dollars below all the others and still only has 4 thousand miles on it. Usually something that good looking is generally a pig wearing pretty lipstick and something isn’t right with it. Look at what the market average is for that particular area or part, then sit and decide if you can go average or higher. Unless they can guarantee that engine is pristine……… leave the cheap one behind. Make sure the car it came from isn’t flood damaged, fire damaged, hit in the front or front sides, or a nasty rollover. Getting those generally leads to big problems having to weld up things on the block. Ask questions when you call them. If they seem annoyed to talk to you and answer your questions…….. kindly hang up and move on to another place.
Now; you’ve got your 3.0L engine sitting in front of you, and it looks like a lot of work to get that engine into your car. In reality it isn’t if you have everything planned out ahead of time. With over 25+ swaps under our belts here at Exile Racing, we’ve pretty much run into everything you at home or school can possibly run into when it comes to parts needed. Unless you bought some ungodly ugly, worn down, hard hit motor that needs a new front cylinder head or crankshaft that is. (We’ve been there as well)
If you copy this list, please at least be man enough to give credit where credit is due. We’ve helped pioneer this conversion along with others and frankly I’m sick of seeing lists I’ve created on other people’s sites without any credit.
TOOLS NEEDED BEFORE YOU GET STARTED
• Metric Socket Set – (1/2 in, 3/8in, 1/4in) If possible at least mid and deep sockets
• ½ breaker bar or a cheater pipe to break stubborn bolts free (AIR TOOLS IF YOU HAVE THEM)
• Open end/box end metric wrench set going from at least 10mm to 18mm
• Screw driver set
• Pry bar or large flathead screw driver
• Engine lift and chain
• Engine stand (or 2, makes it easier to swap parts from one engine to the other this way)
• Jack and jack stands
• Large moving blanket or cardboard sheet to place the hood on after you remove it.
• Gasket scraper (putty knife)
• Timing Tensioner tool (available for loan at ExileRacing.com or purchase at 3SXPerformance.com)
• Droplight/flashlights
• Grinder
• Hacksaw/sawsall (recommended)
MATERIALS NEEDED
• Blue Loctite
• Torque Converter Bolts (available at the dealer, or local trans shop)
• Black RTV
• Oil filter neck gasket (available at the dealer, or you can get gasket material and cut your own)
• Oil pickup tube gasket (dealer, or cut your own)
• Engine Degreaser
• Towels
• Oil drain pans (get as many as you can or dump often)
• Oil filter (use OEM Avenger 2.5L Unit)
• Oil (Use whichever you like, Mobil 1 etc)
• Couple of quarts of trans fluid for leakage (ATF+3 ONLY)
• Spark Plugs (We use NGK Copper, Bosch Copper also work great)
• PB Blaster or any rust penetrating oil
• MAP, Propane, or Oxy/Ac Torch just in case the exhaust is crusty
• Engine Coolant
• Exhaust Frontpipe Gaskets (2) dealer
3.0l 6G72 ENGINE PARTS THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED
• Pull the drain plug from the oil pan (you don’t want to have to pull off a full pan if they forgot to drain it before shipping)
• Upper Intake Manifold
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Fuel rail and injectors
• Front AC Bracket (black painted cast iron)
• Crankshaft pulley
• Timing cover
• You may need to take the front cam gear off to get at the back steel timing cover. This also makes installing the 2.5 cover easier as well. You have to redo the timing anyways, so take it off and save the curse words for something else. This generally means you’ll need an air wrench, so if you don’t get creative and leave the gear on. Unless you have a way of locking the gear from spinning without marring them up (OEM tool, it just isn’t worth it)
• Timing idler and bracket
• Crank position sensor (right by the lower timing gear, held in with 2 10mm bolts)
• Alternator bracket (if they sent it with it)
• Power Steering Bracket (again if they sent it)
• Exhaust manifolds
• Oil filter neck (3 bolts, 12mm – holds oil filter and temp sensor)
• Oil pan (this is a pain. You need the gasket scraper or putty knife and have to pry it off by wedging it in and goig along the pan on both sides until you feel it pulling apart)
• Oil pickup tube
• Coolant thermostat housing (crossover)
• Distributor
• Wrap up the cord for the knock sensor between the heads and tuck in away or remove the sensor completely.
2.5L 6G73 PARTS THAT NEED TO BE MODIFIED TO FIT THE 3.0L 6G72
• Timing covers – Here you’ll have to modify the lower cover at the lower section at the front of the block. Just trim off enough until it sits flush on the 3.0L engine, then set it aside until you get the timing done (Picture to come)
• Lower Alternator Bracket – Now In order to install this, you’ll notice the 6G72 oil pump has a mounting boss right where it needs to go on the back part of the motor. Two options here, hack it off the pump completely with a saw, or grind it until the alternator bracket fits. If you hack it, just cut the cylinder threaded portion off. No need to go any further in as the bracket clears with it gone. (Picture to come)
• Front bracket for the engine to trans (the one behind the starter) This you’ll see the upper 2 mounting holes for the engine, then a raised lip around the edge. You’ll need to take this edge off all the way around the top and about mid way to the bend. (Picture to come)
2.5L PARTS THAT NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED OVER TO THE 3.0L 6G72
• Lower intake manifold
• Rear plenum brackets
• Upper Alternator Bracket
• Front cam gear to remove the steel timing cover
• Timing idler and spacer behind it
• Timing belt, and set the timing with new tensioner and tool. (TRIPLE CHECK TIMING)
• Timing covers from 2.5
• Oil Pickup tube from 2.5
• Oil Pan from 2.5
• Oil filter neck from 2.5, Install on 3.0 using either oem gasket or custom cut. DO NOT USE RTV. THIS IS AN AREA OF HIGH PRESSURE AND RTV WILL NOT HOLD
• Front and rear exhaust manifolds and gaskets from 2.5
• Oil Dipstick tube from 2.5
• Thermostat housing from 2.5
• Distributor from 2.5
• Plugs and wires
• Passenger side motor mount from 2.5
• AC Compressor bracket from 2.5
• Driveplate and spacer from 2.5
SANDMAN’S TIPS AND THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR
• Take your time and plan ahead. Plan for all scenarios. Including not finishing the car in a weekend and have a backup ride to work if need be. Make sure you have help, doing it solo is doable…….. but it will go a lot smoother if you have a helping hand or two.
• Put a drain pan under the passenger side axle on the trans and make sure it covers that side, the back differential cover and a good side area around it. When you remove the heater hose lines, pull them out and point them down at the pan if possible to minimize mess. Do all of this after you have finished all you can under the car so you aren’t laying in smelly coolant all night. We at ERT don’t even use a typical drain pan for oil, bt use the under the bed storage bins you can get a Sears. Wide area, and holds a full trans, oil, and coolant in one shot.
• The 3.0L may start off rough or die on first attempts, this is the ECU learning so no need to worry. It will smooth out soon, just let it warm up a bit.
• Leave the radiator cap off while you warm it for a bit, this will make sure you don’t vapor lock the engine and overheat. It will push coolant out of the toop, so just put a towel or 2 around it. DON’T COVER IT WITH A TOWEL OR BLOCK IT, THIS WILL PRESSURIZE THE SYSTEM AND WHEN YOU RELEASE IT WILL BLOW OUT. If bubbles are popping up fast as the engine runs, you are safe to pop the cap on.
• The new engine may tick a bit until you get some load on the engine and the lifters have time to pump up. Unless it is REALLY loud and the car is running rough, you should be fine. If the car sounds like it is causing damage… turn it off and check the oil level, timing etc.
• Keep everything clean, just makes everything easier. Clean any gaskets being reused (Thermostat housing, exhaust manifold) Dirt will cause leaks.
• You’re going to notice differences in the front and rear valve covers. They don’t have the same mounting bosses we do on the 2.5. It is OK to either swap the hard lines for the vacuum with silicone, or just lay them there out of the way under the manifold in the spots it would have mounted in.
• You may notice a bit higher oil pressure than on the 2.5…….. don’t worry. It’s normal.
• You can use stock injectors on the 2.5, you just won’t have any top end power that you would have unless you use 210cc injectors. In order to get back low end power after swapping the injectors out, you’ll need to tune the bottom end of the RPM scale with a controller such as the SAFC or Split Second PSC1.
• DO NOT USE THE 3.0 210CC injectors that come on the motor you order. You’ll be sorry when you try to upgrade them later and the injector choices will have you cutting and splicing the harness back to what you had before. You must use High Impedance injectors or a resistor pack for lows if you feel you must have them for some reason.
• YES, HEADERS FROM THE 2.5 WORK ON THE 3.0L
The 3.0 we use comes from these cars.
2000+ Eclipse
2001+ Sebring
2001+ Stratus
1999+ Galant
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